Thursday, May 09, 2013

Big Guns

Like pigeons (which I will soon be writing about again) big bore shotguns are a constant recurring interest of mine shared by few contemporaries-- those mostly coastal wildfowlers who used tens in the US, something I was at least born into.

When it comes to Big Guns US shooting society tends to live in the state described in that ancient Firesign Theater skit: Everything you Know is Wrong. Bores larger than ten are not primarily poachers' or market hunters tools, and are by no means all crude; most English firms including Purdey's made them. The recoil of many is not particularry hard, because they are heavy enough-- some modern  four bores weigh 16 pounds, though of course you have to lift the huge thing. Fowlers rarely kill whole flocks of ducks-- more common to paddle in reach and flush them all before you can shoot. And no,  Mr. Buck, we were NOT "shooting eight bore loads" out of our big twelves; starting in the 1870's, long case (3 3/4 - 4 1/4  inch) eights like the one pictured below were shooting loads of three ounces of shot, more than any imaginable twelve, out of each barrel; "light eights" with 3 1/4 inch shells could still manage 2 1/2 ounces!

I had a muzzleloading double four with rather short barrels back in the eighties.


Recently the English wildfowling writer John Humphreys, who had rescued James Wentworth Day's legendary 8 bore "Roaring Emma" from the collection of a wealthy American, * placed the gun with the  Hull and East Riding Wildfowling Association, who will rent it out to hunters on the coast. It is an original and welcome concept and I would like to see it spread, or go to East Anglia, stay with "Johnny UK", see the field my father flew out of during the war, and rent that cannon.

Wentworth Day was a prolific writer and flamboyant character who survived into the Sixties but cut a figure from another age-- here he is with the 1870's Joe Lang magnum eight Roaring Emma and his retriever, Mr. Soapy Sponge. after the Surtees character.
I have books by Day on everything from waterfowl to sporting dogs to shooting in Egypt and I bet I don't have a fifth of what he wrote. Kipling could have made him up, or Conan Doyle. He may be prone to exaggeration, and I would not rely on him for sober history, but you can't fault him on old guns. I think his newest was built before the turn of the  (nineteenth) century.

English enthusiasts still build big guns. Walter Hingley, the Canadian scholar who is one of my best sources for both gun and scientific stuff, sent me the above  and enough material to research for a month, including another fascinating link about a new TWO bore. I had thought that fours were the biggest "shoulder"-- that is, non- punt-- guns, but some people are never satisfied. It shoots eight ounces of lead. They pattern it at seventy yards.


I am delighted there are still people crazy enough to do this, especially as everything old becomes commodified, costs too much, and disappears into collector's vaults.


*Remember, we are not allowed to hunt with these here. To quote from the article on "Emma": "The gun subsequently ended up in the USA, where many of our old big bores go even though they cannot be used, and was eventually bought and brought back to the UK by John Humphreys. Due to his ill health he decided to sell the gun but did not want it to go back to the USA or to sit unused in someone's collection. By selling the gun to HERWA he has ensured it remains in this country and that it will continue to be used for wildfowling. In an incredibly generous act a long standing member of the wildfowling club bought the gun and donated it to HERWA."

16 comments:

Anonymous said...

That is wonderful stuff. I mistook that 2-bore for a punt gun. Amazing to see it fired from the shoulder. Now I want to shoot it...

Jim Cornelius
www.frontierpartisans.com

Nathaniel Fitch said...

I think the "8 bore loads from a 12 gauge" myth comes from 12 gauge upsetting the 10 gauge of the period, and just being exaggerated.

It also might be from marketing of the period, though I've so far found no examples to support this.

Regardless, it's simply ridiculous. 8 bores are no joke.

Anonymous said...

Great to see you mention one of the writers that inspired me to go wildfowling ... the other was Gough Thomas , an electrical engineer( like myself), who was passionate about shotgun design , and wrote the "Bible"!.

I have only ever shot a double 10G, a Darne,but stick to 12G Magnum now when occasionally geese are "in", and 20G for everything else.

I remember a flight on the Ouse Washes at dawn, many years ago,sitting in a hide, up to my knees in water ,with a shivering spaniel on a nearby knoll, when I saw an impossibly high pack of pintail approaching. I heard a roar from the next strip of marsh,and one spiraled down. After the flight,I met the other gun, and remarked on his skill. He was a member of a local club, and only used a single 8 for all his wildfowling on the washes, concentrating on very high birds...

I believe that Alan Myers of Preston UK may still make specialist "Big Bore" shotguns, I only know him as a supplier of hand loaded large bore cartridges.

JohnnyUK

Dave said...

Great article Stephen. i was so glad to find your blog, as I have been reading your stuff since the original Gray's Sporting Journal back in the 70's. I don't have any vintage big bores, but my goose gun is a 10 gauge Browning pump with lovely wood and some machine engraving. It was made before we decided that a waterfowl gun had to be ugly.

Anonymous said...

"Remember, we are not allowed to hunt with these here."

I think they are legal for turkey in some places.

WH

dodson said...

I have a friend who hunts dove with a 8 bore muzzle loader. He tells the wardens that it is a 10. Quite impressive to see the smoke and then a dove fall out. Another gunsmith friend had a 2 bore Greener. I didn't see it but said the shot looked like a basketball flying through the air. He also had a 6 bore Roper single with 2 choke tubes that were fitted to a threaded section outside the barrel. American made gun.

dodson said...

I have a friend who hunts dove with a 8 bore muzzle loader. He tells the wardens that it is a 10. Quite impressive to see the smoke and then a dove fall out. Another gunsmith friend had a 2 bore Greener. I didn't see it but said the shot looked like a basketball flying through the air. He also had a 6 bore Roper single with 2 choke tubes that were fitted to a threaded section outside the barrel. American made gun.

Steve Bodio said...

I would love to see or even have a shootable single eight ML, and am even more interested in hearing about the Roper. MY email is "ebodio at gilanet dot com" or you can get me snail mail at POB 709 Magdalena NM 87825.

Dave, those were the best magnum tens in years-- wish sometimes I had bought one. Though I am not doing much wildfowling these days.

Johnny-- can you find me ads or illustrations by Myers of his guns?

Walter-- you are right-- they are only banned for wildfowl, although some states are also restrictive.

Anonymous said...

As you say in Good Guns Again, the optimum weight for a 12 bore double game gun is 6.5-7 lbs with 3 lb barrels

What is the optimum weight for a 8 bore double shotgun?

WH

Anonymous said...

"I have a friend who hunts dove with a 8 bore muzzle loader" - each to his own!
When I purchased my Darne 10G, back in the 80's, from the son of a Lincolnshire farmer, I asked what he shot with it - "Father was renown as a partridge shot, nobody realised he shot that light 10G, with 2 1/2 in. No 7 shells!"

Everyone finds their own solutions.....

JohnnyUK

Steve Bodio said...

As I have said I am interested in the muzzleloading eights and especially the Roper with adjustable chokes. Is it a newer gun?

dodson said...

I have sent you 2 emails re the Roper last night. Check your in box. I may need to resend. The Roper was circa 1840 made in Pekin illinois and had 2 choke tubes. A graceful, elegant gun for a 6. Roper must have been English. MV Highsmith owned the gun as well as the 2 bore Greener and numerous other goodies of all kinds. He is mentioned in Buckingham's 8 gauge article. Let me know if you did not get the emails and I will resend.

Steve Bodio said...

Dodson-- I cannot find it even in my spam. Try ebodio@gilanet.com again; I will check all. If it doesn't work I will have it sent through a friend!

dodson said...

I had an extra n in your email address resent just now. hope you got it. sorry. this internet thing still throws me some time. i was born 100 years too late

dodson said...

Steve, I was looking through the book "The Outlaw Gunner" by Harry M. Walsh. I it is a great little book with super photos about market hunting on the Chesapeake. Punt guns, auto 5's with extended mags, live decoys, skiffs etc. There are 2 photos of 0 gauge shoulder fired shotguns which use 8 oz. of shot. One man calls his the "headache gun" as he takes aspirin before and after shooting it. Do you have the book?

Steve Bodio said...

Greener gave three weights for 8 bores, light, medium and magnum in his tenth edition, for different chambers and weights of shot, fifteen, thirteen, eleven or twelve (backwards!) I have only seen the last, which balances pretty well in a Greener or Francotte or big Spanish gun-- better than a ten mag in last!