I also like to keep niches filled, which in my case means mostly working hunting niches; to be able once in a while to give a friend a gun or a screaming deal, since I have often been the beneficiary of others; Karma if you will. I practice selling what I don't need, and am always up for bartering-- whaddaya got? Having bought sensibly in the past helps, though obviously, as Burnham's 4th Law has it, "You can't invest in retrospect."
And you have to drop your preconceptions and buy quickly if the right thing comes along, which is how I got my little Remington Model 17 pump 20 bore (the only gauge it was ever made in). The Model 17 was designed by no less than John Moses Browning, and is a close ancestor to today's still extant and traditionally American- built Ithaca Model 37, which comes in all gauges but 10.
This is the first time I have ever seen one for sale since I became aware of them many years ago-- they are not common. It is slick and but for slightly faded blue seems all original, and athough it weighs only 5 1/2 pounds its long 28" barrel means it does not poke but swings like a mini trap gun. I am glad I picked it up and can't even think of a reason to get rid of it-- it cost virtually nothing. And to any who wonder about a pump gun's value-- three people have offered to take it off my hands for significant $$, and every one already has an English gun...
Another project is this English hammer "short" ten, a classic back- action sidelock with rebounding locks and chambers of 3" for the old (but available even in expensive bismuth) 2 7/8" shell. It has a set of modern proof marks for Nitro powder from between the 50's and the 80's ( I know the decades but I am not going to get up to look!) So even if you couldn't see or measure the massive thick walls of fancy Damascus figure*, you would know that it is safe. It is a big gun but not a monster, a bit over 8 1/2 pounds, and well balanced. The trigger pulls are excellent, with rebounding locks; the barrels unmarked. It has good figured walnut, but rather masked and darkened, so is up for at least a partial refinish.
Most interesting thing is that it is the first Nitro proof gun and maybe the first gun period I have seen with NEW Damascus tubes sleeved onto an old (different pattern) twist steel bloc. The pattern on these tubes is wonderfully intricate, but the browning on the barrels (like bluing for steel guns; no relation to the inventor)) is so dark I thought it was blue until I got it outdoors. I need to get some but not all of this off to show pattern better, but I want to retain the rich color. In the photos I have tweaked the color to bring up the pattern-- if they were already like that I wouldn't do a thing. Worth it to double or right click to see better...
* If you are of the dwindling minority who think Damascus is inherently unsafe, step away from this box and read the 6 part series by Sherman Bell in Double Gun Journal between Summer 2005 and Winter 2009, called "Finding Out for Myself" (there were other experiments under the same title but those years covered the relevant issues), in which he and an engineering - minded team of friends, "Mythbusters" for the classic gun set, attempted for several years the task of making a Damascus barrel explode-- this using repeated PROOF loads, too long for the chambers, on pre- wrecked or at least battered-- some were loose, some held together by copper wire-- American waterfowl double guns. And failed, period, stop. Not one, not one, even expanded. Now add modern English proof for Nitro in any gun so marked...
I think the consensus was that guns that did so blew up because someone had inadvertently dropped a twenty bore shell in ahead of the 12-- which condition could and did blow up both Damascus and steel barrels.
8 comments:
Good find, a decent 17 has been on my short list for a while. Just saw a rough looking one the other day going for a firm $350.00... Pass. I am sure the right one will come along when I am penniless.
Great additions, Steve! I've seen quite a few Model 10s (although in rough shape) but never a 17. I've often contemplated the idea of a working collection on a beer budget comprised of hunting examples of the major American pump guns from the Winchester 97 forward- Rem 10, Rem 17, Rem 31, Winchester 12, Ithaca 37, Stevens 527 & 620, and the Hi-Standard with the Winchester 1300, Remington 870, and Mossberg 500 for completeness.
The 10 is a gem, too- damascus sleeved to damascus! Just the thing for snows and fat January mallards on the bosque!
Steve, that's a nice find. Not many guns out there in that weight class, especially a pump. There's something about the Spartan looks of a classic American pump such as the M12, M37 and M17. Here's a recent thread on the M17 with an interesting one made during the UMC days. A couple of mine are also depicted. Gil (GLS)
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=273732
I have a shotgun that looks exactly like that rabbit ear. Any idea on value?
rcw--
There are probably over a hundred makers in Britain that used such actions, for both rifles and shotguns, in calibers and gauges from smallbore to eight gauges and double rifles, for decades.(I expect they were bought from a Birmingham maker in the white, and finished by makers from the provincial to the provincial to the best- known Londoners).
Very similar actions were in use in Belgium and elsewhere on the Continent.
So: value can go from in the hundreds to five figures for a Holland and Holland. Condition and name are everything, shootability high too. This one is a Williams and Powell of Birmingham, old (founded 1790's)and distinguished if obscure, in recent Nitro proof,so more than a couple of thousand for the specialized buyer, though it might sit on the shelf for a long time in a less specialized shop. No way to figure but experience and a developed eye!
Thanks Steve. It is a holland and holland. I checked their website and have emailed them for more info.
Love your blog!
I had no idea that the 10 gauge had sleeved barrels, so much for examining them in the dimly lit back room at Ron's. What a great old gun. That she'll launch pull down ducks and geese over the Bosque using modern non-toxic shot so many years after her making, just think of it.
James Sandoval
You are on, James-- you and Bodie can take me wildfowling (;-))
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