Friday, February 08, 2008

A few more thoughts on dog restrictions

Annie Hocker, Matt, and feminist hunter and gun writer Mary Stange were having an online discussion on the erosion of support for unpopular kinds of hunting like that with hounds. I saved a few of my thoughts as I thought them appropriate for the blog.

Mary said (rightfully) that we must mobilize and stand up: "You cannot complain about being a marginal group if you accept the marginalization, and act accordingly."

True, but there are difficulties. Me:

"I think the trouble is that the playing field isn't level, or rather that one or two players can outspend the others with ease. HSUS has literally millions a year to commit-- they have a bigger budget than a Third- World country. There are only a couple of thousand falconers in the North American falconers Association, and only twice that nationally. There are even fewer coursing dog people, few if any in urban states. Hound dog men are rural, inarticulate, and poor but for foxhounds of course, and THEY, a tiny number, can be demonized as evil elitists as they were in England. We can't afford lobbyists-- how can we NOT be marginal?

Yet we fight anyway. We write letters and testify. How can you get attention when both statewide newspapers (NM) editorialize for AR laws and don't print your letters? Many Cal hunters and coursers went to Sacramento. Many were not let in. So far the Internet helps..

The second biggest player here, the AKC, is now in bed with the HSUS, hoping they will play nice to protect their enormous investment in the outmoded, unhealthy, Victorian- racist closed- studbook paradigm, which ironically is giving birth to many genetically defective dogs that in turn feed PETA's propaganda. They-- AKC-- want to eliminate mongrels, crossbreds, and genetic diversity. That's why you can't make an intentional crossbred running dog in Albuquerque these days.

ASPCA is just PETA lite.

Science and experience with animals should surely count, as I said in the blog post, but do little up against money and sentimental lies."

Then someone (Annie?)reminded me that:

"Many foxhunters, (horseback version) are very squeamish about this, however, as they do not support any other use of hounds for hunting other than what they do, so the veneer of unification is thin, and fractionalization, if not marginalization, is just
temporarily "at bay." "

I replied:

"This is extremely unfortunate and as common as it is bad. Falconers can be among the worst offenders.

When I was rallying people for the Cal coursing fight one falconer said that nobody could equate beautiful birds with I quote "those vicious hounds". I countered by sending him that pic of the child napping with the gorgeous coursing saluki and said "What if I juxtaposed this with a pic of an adrenalin- fired, wild eyed Gos beginning to eat a bird alive?" (As Matt and Annie know I have a Gos so this is not an example of longwinger prejudice!)

The anti - hound faction on the hunters' side is exemplified by nature essentialist Dave Peterson's furious attacks on the practice. I think he soaked up too much of the nuttier side of Paul Shephard, who thought domestication was evil and domestic animals "goofies". Bulldogs or peeks maybe-- but primitive hunting breeds like Laikas or Asian sighthounds, with their pack structures, wolflike vocalizations, denning habits, and single estrus, are as like wild animals as domestic except for the innate tractability that marks them as "dog"...

Getting off on a hobbyhorse. But I support all ethical and sustainable hunting, and reject over- regulation of one's animals (ALWAYS by people who know less about it than those on the human - animal interface, and always at the behest of AR agendists with their money and sentimental ads and Hollywood star publicity.

If I were in my thirties I'd move to K'stan."

10 comments:

Luisa said...
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Luisa said...
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Luisa said...

Last shot, and then the monitor goes out the window.

Once again, with link goodness.

The AKC has sold its soul, such as it was, to the millers and pet shops. Not in bed with PETA, if you ask me.

Thought I could support the ASPCA, since it doesn't seem to oppose the raising of livestock and the use of stockdogs, but they oppose hunting, sure enough, so that's the end of that. Too bad, since they did right by the Vick dogs: both the HSUS and PETA wanted those dogs killed right away, but the ASPCA [and others] lobbied for individual evaluations in hopes there would be some good dogs in the bunch. There were, and there are.

Damn tags.

Steve Bodio said...

It's good, Luisa. I know about "damn tags"-- you should see how long it takes to do a link- heavy post like the previous.

And they DID do a good job with Vick's dogs-and since I like pit bulls that is A Good Thing.

Anonymous said...

"But I support all ethical and sustainable hunting, and reject over- regulation of one's animals (ALWAYS by people who know less about it than those on the human - animal interface, and always at the behest of AR agendists with their money and sentimental ads and Hollywood star publicity."

Well said Steve.

The younger Kazakh's in the cities though are falling for the animal rights propaganda too though. I was working in Almaty this past summer and both our translators this year and last year used to argue with me about hunting. It is a beautiful country though.
regards
Dan

mdmnm said...

Late comment:

Steve- I haven't seen Dave Peterson's attack on hound hunting but I think it likely that it could stem in part from the uneasy sharing of the woods by archery elk hunters and bear hunters. The two seasons run about the same time and if you ever want an earful, go to an Elk Foundation event around some bow hunters and mention bear hunting with hounds. Lots of stories of lost & run-down dogs, dogs raiding camps, and general dismissive attitude from the bear guys. I haven't seen any of that myself, but I've heard the complaints a number of times. As a bowhunter, Peterson may have had some problems, too.

Steve Bodio said...

Mike: Dave's attack on hounds was mostly off the record, in correspondence with me, Don Thomas, and Dutch Salmon. His objections were that it was cruel, unfair, and that it looked bad to antis. He had never read up on it never mind done it, and had no more idea of it than a PETA member!

I don't think it is unfair. It is very difficult and there aren't many hound packs today. I don't think it is as "cruel" as an arrow. I suppose you could make a case for it being unnecessary for bears, but how on earth would you hunt lions?

And do you think antis think any kind of hunting is better than any other? (Sorry, I don't mean "YOU"!)

Remember, Paul Shephard was as anti- domestication as PETA, and wanted all domestic animals done away with. He is at least a minor god to Dave.

mdmnm said...

Steve-

Thanks! Good to know. Without having participated or been around it myself, hound hunting strikes me as having the potential to be as challenging and ethical or easily abused as many other variations. ATV's, cold strikes from truck beds, and gps collars would seem to lower the sport. On the plus side, for bears and lions it offers the chance of catch & release- if you end up with a juvenile lion or bear, or a nursing female, you can call off the dogs and leave them to go on their way.

I do take the point about hound hunting appearing bad to antis. Dogs baying after a fleeing animal running for its life is pretty evocative. Of course, whatever a hunter does is going to look bad to anti's eyes- the gazehounds kill the hare by ganging on it and then one _bites it_, an arrow bleeds a critter out (which I'm a bit squeamish about), a muzzleloader is underpowered or archaic and indicates an un-PC fantasy, a modern rifle is unsporting because it is "a high powered hunting rifle". Damned pretty much any way we do.

Thanks for the response and I'm sorry to here about Peterson's narrow mindedness on the subject. He may be underestimating the pass archers get for using short-range tackle.

mdmnm said...

That was "kill the hare by ganging up on it" and "sorry to hear". Preview is my friend.

Mike

mdmnm said...

That was "kill the hare by ganging up on it" and "sorry to hear". Preview is my friend.

Mike